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LFA Board Minutes - 2012-10-05

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Minutes of Board Meeting Oct 5, 2012


Date: October 5, 2012 Time: 7:00 pm (MDT) Location: Mary Ann Swalberg’s Home

Opening Prayer: Karolyn Hall Those present: Mary Ann Swalberg, Dana Rogers, Enid Cox, Doug Livingston, Karolyn Hall, Trent Lewis, Daidre Hulick

Excused: Dennis Davis Chairman’s Business: Dana Rogers

• Year’s subscription to Ancestry.com?

Dana felt that our best bet is to go month by month with Ancestry.com and then take turns using it. However, it would be better if one of us had it and then invited the others in as quests. Lorraine said has Ancestry.com for 6 months, but didn’t know how to start a Livingston tree. We already have a tree called “VanOrden” and that tree is in Ancestry.com so we can use it. Dana and Lorraine will try to work together on inviting the board members to this tree.

This led into our discussion about the Research Committee headed by Doug Livingston and what we should be doing. Doug said he probably wouldn’t use Ancestry.com because he is going to use Personal Ancestral File (PAF). It is better to have one program to work with. He is working with Scottish records, which have to be purchased and Ancestry.com doesn’t have them for the records we are looking at in Scotland. Ancestry.com does have the records of the family after they came to America.

PAF data

Some of the board members had previously volunteered to transfer the documentation from the notes in PAF into the family record Doug and his committee is putting together. It was suggested that Doug might suggest the proper way to enter these sources so they would be entered in a consistent way. We should be using PAF and the tutorials that go along with it. If we use PAF we should be safe.
Since FamilySearch will be using Family Tree instead of new.familysearch in the future, we will have to add sources if we make any changes. The information will have to be verified using the original source to get the most- correct date.
At present, mistakes are being duplicated over and over again. It was suggested that if we are unable to find an original source, perhaps census records could be used until an original record could be found.

We are using the VanOrden/Bench PAF data as a base because they have the most sources and are the most accurate. It is putting these sources into the computer that the family will have to help with. The documentation is all in the notes because they used version of Personal Ancestral File and that was how you recorded documentation . If we are going to put out something that is the Livingston Family Association Authorized Version, we have to step up a couple of levels and create a process to do this documentation. The problem is, we really don’t know how to do that. A good example of this is with Granny Livingston’s parents . There are a couple of very plausible people who could be her parents . Do we use both? We know we need references and we will have to go with the references we have now. Doug doesn’t know yet how we should do this, but he will work with Ross Livingston and then let us know how to add the sources the correct way. The documentation that needs to be transferred from the “notes” section of PAF, will not be new information as it is all very good. The family that will be transferring the data will have to have to make it professional in quality. It can’t be hearsay that is used for documentation. A good example of this is the birthdate of Archibald, which the family records say was in 1702. We don’t know what day it was or where it was and yet our records are replete and insistent that he was born on July 4. This information went from a guess to fact. We will need to form a process for how we evaluate what our position is because there are a couple of places where we really don’t know. Doug has put together records that duplicate some of the work the VanOrden/Bench records show. He started at Archibald Livingston 1808 and went back five generations and proved and footnoted everything he could. He feels good about everything that is in there except the Campbell line . This can be compared with the other records the family has by putting them side by side and comparing the sources. That would be a big chunk of the family with those five generations . There isn’t that much information available and whether it is right or wrong is a matter of making basic assumptions and hoping for the best.


The map project Doug is working on will be very helpful in determining where the family was and what they were doing. He is now working on the maps of Lanarcshire , Scotland. We need to be on the same page. Compatibility comes by using Gedcom. Ross is going to use the five generations to test the process of putting family records on the website. For example, we will have to decide what to call people – not use five or six different names. For instance, when someone one is born, one name is used and when they marry, another name is used. We will have to have a general name and then put what they were also known as. Genealogy is not a science, you just have to take the best information you have. Another example of mistakes being made over and over again is Christina Livingston, our most celebrated ancestor who we affectionately call Granny. Christina Campbell Livingston is not her name. Her maiden name was not Campbell, it was Livingston. Campbell was her mother’s maiden name. She never called herself that way but it is imbedded in our folklore. This shows the depth of the problem we are dealing with. When the time is right, Doug will let us know how to document the correct way. It will be big news! Then when the records are complete, it shouldn’t be just one person who will do the quality check on the records. When we have the records documented, Ross can very quickly put them on the website, however, when we send information to Ross to put on the website, we need to do it so it doesn’t fowl him up. It needs to be formatted a certain way. It is a learning process and we need to find out what things we are doing wrong and correct them. Treasurer’s Report: Enid Cox We have only written one check since our last meeting to Doug for $258.45 for another set of maps of Lanarcshire , Scotland and he has received the maps.

Treasures Report

Balance in Checking is $3388.89 Balance in Savings is $3440.61 as of September 28, 2012

Archive Director Report: Dennis Davis

Dennis sent a message from his IPad on Oct 4 saying: “ I am in Arizona visiting children and won't be at the meeting. Include any assignments for me in the minutes and I'll take care of them. I have continued to find Livingston grave sites and link family members together on Find-A-Grave.

Membership Director Report: Trent Lewis

Trent has an idea for those who joined the family organization at the reunion. He felt it would be good to send out a welcome letter saying it was nice to have them in the Livingston Family Association. We need to get better addresses so we can better communicate in the future. After sending out the letter, if it comes back, we know we have bad information. He passed around a proposed letter to be sent asking us to make suggestions or corrections. It was suggested he use the Livingston letterhead, which he said he would do. Everyone present said they thought the letter was a great idea.
It was suggested that the Livingston Family Association get a PayPal account so it would be easier for family members to contribute, make reservations, pay for lunches that are catered or bought prior to reunions, etc.
Enid said there isn’t that much money involved and it isn’t that big of a problem. It was suggested that using PayPal was an easy way to handle money. It is nice for those who use the internet. PayPal shows who paid and deposits the money directly into the bank account. It was a concern, however, that PayPal would take a percentage of the money.
A suggestion was made that the letter could also say that contributions could be paid through PayPal. It was suggested that the letter be sent to those getting the newsletters as well as the new members. The board thought the letter could be piggybacked with the newsletter.
Trent will email the letter to the board and we can make changes and then email the changes back to him.

Dana passed out a list of people that Ross took off the Wiki electronic newsletter file because they bounced. There were a lot of names. We were each asked to look the list over and see if there are any changes to addresses or names on the lists that we knew about. She asked us to take the list home and highlight the ones we know or that we can find something about. When looking over the list, members of the board said they had already sent the changes on some of the names. It was reported that Stanley Child and Hortense Smith both had passed away.

Newsletter Report: Karolyn Hall

Karolyn’s newsletter articles are done as well as Dana’s and Enid’s. Enid told about and article on Jean and Bill Livingstone, distant relatives who live in Scotland, honoring them on their 50th wedding anniversary. Their daughter, Laura, sent a wonderful history that will be included in the newsletter. It was very well written and is a page long. It could also be used as a Livingston Legacy article.

Dana had asked Karolyn to include a thank you for the people who were honored at the reunion but she didn’t know if there was enough room. Karolyn said they are very cautious about how they put pictures in the newsletter. They are attaching them, not embedding them within the articles. This makes it easier for Ross to put the newsletter on the Wiki.

Research Director’s Report: Doug Livingston/Lorraine Misener

Maps Project – Doug will have something to report by the next newsletter Henderson Estate Papers - Doug communicated with the people who had the Henderson Papers and asked them into digitizing them so they could be sent to him. It took a few conversations and they said they would put this project on their list and now Doug has them to look over. They will only cost about $20.00.

The papers reference two estate plans that turn out to be maps. One of the maps is dated 1754, which is right in the middle of the time frame the Livingston’s were there. It is very exciting that the owner, John Henderson, made a very detailed plan, with every community referenced with the parish registers. The other map takes place in about 1800, which was about when the Livingston’s left. We don’t know exactly when they left, but the two maps cover the time frames of the Livingston’s lived in Fordel. They are big digital files that Doug got just yesterday so he hasn’t explored them yet. There is the potential for a whole new project. He was thinking that perhaps we could just forget the family line and just do everybody. We are talking about 2500 people in Fordel. So if you take all the parish registers of all those people, it is manageable. The information is so specific. When asked if we could extract the names, Doug said that the names have already been extracted, but they weren’t all extracted. We need to get the rest of what is in there.
If we could tie the two maps together, we could get the story of the whole community from those registers. We won’t have their stories, but the idea is very intriguing. Long ago our family research reached the end point of the information in the parish registers, so if we look into these Henderson maps, we are going to see families developing. We can then make connections between those families and what was going on at that time. There were probably enough marriages between neighbors that we could look into. For instance, we could see who the witnesses were at the marriages. They probably all knew each other as they lived next door to each other in the same row houses.

It was suggested that individual histories can be written using the information from community histories. A history of a community is the history of its people. The Church has done this kind of thing in Hungary and Spain and areas where the records have been lost to war or fire, etc. The board mentioned that the spirits of those on the other side of the veil were probably helping us find these records. They must be excited about this work.

Reunion Director Report: Daidre Hulick

Daidre passed out a paper with a schedule for the upcoming reunion. The reunion committee met together last Sunday at Dana’s home. Those present were Dana, Daidre, Jeff Cox and his wife, Kaye, and Dana’s daughter, Amy Reed. They hashed out a lot of ideas and came up with a plan. They will meet again to make a more complete plan.

They wanted to make Gilgal Gardens on 5th South in Salt Lake City a part of the reunion. This was created by Thomas B. Child, the grandson of Jane Harrocks Livingston, one of the wives of Charles Livingston. His mother was Elizabeth Livingston who married Thomas Battersby Child. He was a stone mason and created Gilgal Gardens as his life work and testimony of the Gospel. The area in the garden isn’t big enough for the whole family to meet in, so they were thinking that those of the family who wanted to go see the garden could go either before or after the reunion. They will give out a map.
It was originally suggested that breakfast would begin at 8:30 and go to 9:30. Another idea was that we could go without having breakfast and then start at 10:00 for those who would be traveling long distances to get there. It was also suggested that if there is food, more people might show up. The social aspect was another reason for having breakfast. The committee thought a Continental breakfast would be good as it can just be put out without much preparation.
As the families come in, we could give the children a family coloring book and crayons so the children could be entertained when the adults are talking. Coloring books have been made for the Harrocks and the Livingston families.

The place they are looking at having the reunion is about a 30-minute drive from Gilgal Gardens. It is near the entrance of Big Cottonwood Canyon and is a wonderful place to have a reunion. It is where Jeff and Kaye Cox live. It has a huge grassy area that would be perfect for the games and the pavilion is wonderful. It has a church where the classes could be taught. There is low traffic in the area and you can see the mountains. It is a little hard to find but we could give the family a map and directions and signs to the spot. Enid had seen it and thought it was wonderful, but it is not very close to Gilgal Gardens.

It was suggested that as long as they are in the area of Gilgal Gardens, the family could take a tour of the area because that is where the Livingston’s lived . Along South Temple you can see the stonework that the Child’s did in the foundations of the homes. Maybe a map and a driving tour. After the breakfast they may or may not be having, they would play a Jeopardy game using questions the family may or may not know. They will combine tables together to encourage the families to meet the other members of the family they might not know, as we tend to sit with those we know. This would be part of the game that would make it so you meet and play with someone you don’t know. They would have categories for kids, photos, historical facts, etc. It would be a lot of fun to interact that way. There are simple programs that can be found on the internet to make your own Jeopardy game. At that point, the kids would be sent outside to a kid’s zone with bounce houses, Scottish games, Snow Cones and popcorn and water. Those who are the ages that don’t quite fit in with the adults or the kids could help with the games, etc. This would be during the time the adults have a meeting and then break out into classes. It was suggested that a business meeting could not be accomplished in 20 minutes as the schedule showed. The reunion committee was being hopeful it could be.

This meeting is where officers are elected for the board. Those who have served for three years are up for replacement. The process of nominating could be done before the reunion by having those who will be leaving find their replacement. We need to get someone on the board from the William line as we don’t have anyone from that line on the board at present.
During the meeting a couple of people will be recognized, but they aren’t going to ask them to talk to the family. So that shouldn’t take too long. Recognition could even be done during lunch time.

After the business meeting will be three classes and they can pick two. Each class will be 20 to 30 minutes with time to switch in between. The three suggestions for classes would be:

1. A family history class given by Doug about the Lanarcshire area and the iron works using the second set of maps purchased by the LFA.
2. A class from the Family History Library. Perhaps we could get someone to teach how to do research using social media. Dana had gone to a class like that. It could be a class to find living relatives we may not know about.
3. The third class could be how to incorporate Scottish Heritage into your family activities. This could be used in Family Home Evening or at reunions, like Scottish games, recipes, etc. It was suggested that there is a lot of information on the internet about Scottish traditions, etc.
After the classes the family is going to split up for “What’s your Line”, where the family will meet others in descendants of James, Charles, Helen, Archibald, Isabelle and William they are a part of.

There will be a get–to-know-you activity and have someone picked to do a blog or something online and then vote on other reunions. Perhaps we could do the big reunion with the whole family every other year and then a smaller reunion of each of the above-mentioned children the off year.

In the by-laws it says we have to meet each year. The by-laws would have to be changed.

After that, a box or catered lunch will be served so there won’t be a need for preparation, which takes people away from the activities to make the lunch. This is one reason they felt it would be good to have a PayPal account so the lunches could be paid for and ordered prior to the reunion. The lunch could be something simple or they could bring their own sack lunch. Enid suggested that the family organization could provide the lunch. If we had a line where we could pick up a sandwich, bag of chips, fruit and drink, it would be easy and fast. It was asked as to whether the meals would need to be paid for in advance. It was mentioned that when they contribute money, part of this will go towards the cost of reunions.

In the newsletter we could tell about the reunion and then ask for volunteers to help with the kid’ zone, etc. Daidre will write up an article and send it to Karolyn for the newsletter. Daidre said she needed a budget for the reunion. The bounce houses can be very expensive. We could look for a Groupon for it. The committee will look into how much money they will need and then see if we need to charge additionally for the meals at the reunion. After lunch we could have Scottish dancers and bagpipes and perhaps the dancers would help teach the Scottish dances to the family. At the end there will be a pot-luck cook-off of desserts - Scottish or not, that will be the dessert for lunch.

The board was very happy with the report from the reunion committee. It was proof for the necessity of having committees. It would be wonderful if we could have members from all the lines on the different committees.

Closing Prayer: Trent Lewis

Board Members

Chairman/Membership: Dana Rogers 801.226.3456
Secretary/Vice Chair: Mary Ann Swalberg 801.262.3192
Treasurer: Enid Cox 801.706.2639
Archive Director: Dennis Davis 626.335.7819
Membership: Trent Lewis 801.455.3066
Newsletter: Karolyn Hall 719.661.4014
Research Director: Douglas Livingston 801.742.0402
Research Assistant: Lorraine Misener 801.298.1455
Reunion Director: Daidre Hulick 281.389.4764

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